Earlier this week, I said my week with Al was very near perfect. It was. We had 6 days of tantric perfection but then there was a tantrum to end all tantrums and it has us rethinking everything. The wedding, our future family interactions, everything.
Al’s 22 year-old daughter has had the worst time with his divorce. Yes, in our experience, the oldest of 6 kids combined has had the hardest time and behaved the worst.
It all started during our blissful week. She has graduated college and moved back home. He has a good relationship with her when I am not in the picture, but they have made a deal not to talk about me, I’m not to communicate with her (she set boundaries for me, ummm..?) etc. The other kids have done fine with me and I have (or thought I had) a good relationship with both of them.
So, there I was, minding my own business and having lots of romance and tantric business in my business, and the other kids were spending lots of time with us of their own initiation. We had lunch with his son on Saturday afternoon after he called to see if we were available and then he and his sister (the 16 y.o.) came over to watch the football game on Sunday at noon. After the game we all went to dinner and had a great time. Throughout all of this, the oldest daughter was doing her own thing but she was well aware we were all together.
It did occur to me she might be getting pissed because even when you choose to not participate there is still a small part of you that is resentful at being left out.
I had a plan to pick up the 16 y.o. the next morning (Monday) to go to a bridal salon for her to choose a bridesmaid dress for the wedding. We found a cute dress in a good color that I planned to coordinate with my girls. After that we went to lunch and then to the mall and pretty much bonded all day, alone. Later we picked up Al from work and the 3 of us went to see a movie. I spent at least 8 hours with her that day.
Consider that adding fuel to the fire for adult daughter.
Now, in defense of myself, I did realize that this was not going to help adult daughter feel any better about me. She called her sister while we were in the mall and I heard the youngest one tell her that we were going to the movie after and that she had found a dress. Al and I had discussed several times that we needed to try to see if she would meet me this trip because she has told her dad that she would come to the wedding and I had been clear to him that I didn’t want the first meeting to be the weekend of the wedding. I was afraid she would be confrontational and I knew that I wouldn’t be able to handle the stress of all of his family, my family, all of the kid’s emotions about our marriage, and also meeting daughter. So we were looking for an opportunity to ask her to meet up.
I thought, this could be that opportunity and asked Al and his daughter to ask her to come to the movie. She declined and decided to stay home alone with the dog.
Yep, there was no way this was going to end well. So, I knew in my heart that she would sit there and fester alone with the dog, but people make their own choices and Al, the eternal optimist, was still holding out hope that she would agree to meet me over the next few days.
On Tuesday night, she called Al and asked if he would go out with her and her boyfriend on Wednesday so that he could meet her bf for the first time. He told her that he would if I could also go, it was my last day, and we also needed to meet before the wedding. Well, that didn’t work at all. She told him she wasn’t ready and that it was important for him to meet the bf. He told her that I was leaving the next day and he didn’t want to leave me alone. It was a test, nothing but a test by her to see if he would leave me alone to be with her.
Really, he was between a hard place and a rock, because if he had gone, I would have been quite unhappy with him for leaving me the night before I left.
Also, I was getting irritated that he can’t move this little girl along as it appears ridiculous to me but of course my kids are still young and I can tell them what to do.
There was general unrest that night, because he got off the phone with her and they were unsettled, also the sadness of my leaving was setting in as it does. The next morning, he got a text from younger daughter who got involved by saying that she was angry that he wouldn’t just go meet her sister and her bf in order to keep the peace. I also by this time was telling him it was okay with me if he did. Al was pretty much mad at all of them so we decided to hunker down and spend the evening in, loving each other, ringing in the new year and getting ready for my early morning flight the next morning. We went to the grocery store and were back putting up the groceries when there was a knock on the door.
WHOA SHIT.
It was beyond ugly. First of all, she is really cute but she was yelling too loudly for me to tell her that. It was awful. She was blasting about me not respecting her boundaries (she has after all said she did not want to meet me, I guess she was going to attend her dad’s wedding without ever making my acquaintance). She was blasting about not being her father’s priority and him always picking me over her. She got in my face and wagged her finger at me for not respecting her boundaries. I told her, “Sit down little girl and get your finger out of my face!” Not the best idea but I was shocked. Her sister was with her and stood crying the entire time.
I kept trying to turn it around and get to the bottom of her feelings.
I asked her what would make it better. That didn’t work. I told her I was sorry if I had upset her. That didn’t work. I asked her if she felt I was responsible for the divorce. She said no, but that didn’t help either. Al was trying everything as well and trying to reason with her and de-escalate her.
At some point I started crying. She turned and left the apartment, exactly as she came in. She made no eye contact with me, didn’t speak and slammed the door. His younger daughter said, “sorry” and left crying.
I cried much of the rest of the day, mostly from shock.
I don’t know where to go from here and Al hasn’t heard from them and is too mad and upset to reach out to them. I did send his youngest daughter a text after I got home asking if she was okay and got back, “I’m alright.”
The truth is though that this girl hates me. She hates the divorce and I apparently represent that for her. She feels like he left her not their mom. She feels in competition with me.
The question is why is she mad at me? I was 1000 miles away when they got divorced.
I don’t even feel like having a wedding now. I just want he and I to go to the JOP and do it privately. At the very most, our parents and 5/6 kids if his 2 that were previously okay with me are still okay with me. I am trying to convince him that the stresses of all of this isn’t worth a big celebration.
I was reading on a forum for second marriages last night of another couple about to remarry who has one child, the oldest, that refuses to attend. What the heck? Who would think that it would be the older kids that would have the hardest time.
Are parents not allowed to be happy? I don’t get it.
If anyone has any ideas I would appreciate them. We are at a loss.
So sad! I think it’s better to not even try to understand because whatever you say or do, she will want the opposite. The question is how will Al deal with it so you two can be a couple and he can still be a father? Good luck!
My heart aches for you, but know that this too shall pass. I could say something cliche’ like “It’s always the darkest before the dawn.” Yeah, cheesy I know but really the truth. Let the cards fall, but don’t give up. You both deserve your moment. I read a wonderful book
I have been dating a man the last 5 years who I re-met on Facebook after 20 years of not seeing each other after high school. Both our marriages ended before we even posted comments on FB. We have 5 kids between us, 3 teens, and 2 tweens. He lives a 3+ hour drive from me, but we’ve been back and forth for 5 years. Do you see why I read your blog religiously? We have enough proximity to see each other almost bi-weekly, with his job being mobile and he can work from my house. His youngest two, a 16 and 11 year old still go to their moms for a week on, week off. His oldest is 18 and doesn’t go anywhere he doesn’t want to, which means he rarely leaves his dad’s house. They all like me but his oldest gives me the vibe when I’m visiting them that I’m in his “space” as in, “Dad’s all mine” when its just them. He’s a quiet boy and I’m still friendly and humorous with him, so I don’t think he’d ever outwardly voice his displeasure. But I know its there. I choose to ignore it. As for marriage, we have decided at least the 3 high-schoolers must leave our houses before we even consider it. And to consider it, we will take a trip and do it alone. MAYBE the kids will come, but that’s it. Its still over 2 years away before both our sophomores are graduating, so we’ll decide then.
I don’t think I’ve seen info from you on when/who is moving after the wedding? Is Al leaving his adult daughter to move to you? That would likely be a big motivation for her crappy attitude. They all could be harboring that resentment for Daddy moving away. I can vouch that LDRs suck but that goes for the kids and their dad too.
A friend of mine once told me, there are people in the world who won’t like you simply because your name is “Deja”.
I know that doesn’t help you to deal with the situation. But you can’t reason with someone who is in a rage, no matter how eloquent your words.
Anger is the emotion that masks fear, frustration, and pain.
Hi…..I have follwed your blog for many months, and would first like to say that you give me so much hope that I can find a true companion in my life who will always have my back. That being said (this may not be a popular opinion) ButIi think Al needs to have a private “come-to-Jesus” meeting with the daughter. He should tell her again that he has not and will not abandon her ever….but that she is disrespecting him by disrespecting YOU. And I would further go on to tell her that if her attitude towards you does not change, then she will not be welcome at the wedding. If you cancel the wedding then she has won. And this will be a life lesson to her that she can get her way by bullying other people. Our kids are never too old to learn from us. The saying is true…we teach people how to treat us….if you tolerate disrespect will will get nothing but disrespect.
~Star from NJ
This, 100x this. I absolutely believe that we do teach people how to treat us, and although I’ve never commented, I’ve been reading here for quite a while. Al is a peach, there is no denying that. But he has tiptoed around his daughter in an effort to keep the peace, and in doing that he has basically validated her behavior. This is not a small child, and you are not some harlot who broke up their happy family. Please don’t give up your wedding, that’s not a solution! And I agree with Star, if this can’t be resolved before the wedding, she just can’t be there, plain and simple.
I think Al should have gone to meet the boyfriend without you. I say this not based on my parenting experience, since my daughter is still young, but on my experience having been a child and young woman whose needs were not prioritized.
Her need is for time to adjust to this situation. That feels unreasonable to you, but you don’t have all the pieces of the puzzle to know what is going through this young woman’s mind. Time lets people adjust to change, and we all have our own timescales. If you can give her space and time, she is more likely to come around. If you insist on making your coupledom a requirement for seeing her dad or for doing things that are about her life (meeting her boyfriend), that is just going to drive her further away.
And I would set some boundaries of your own. No more yelling at you, period. Uncool. Is this young woman going to wreck your wedding by causing a scene? That’s something Al needs to talk to her about. Maybe they could do something special together, and she could skip the wedding. If they could iron that out without acrimony, your day will go more smoothly, and she might feel respected, which again could lead to harmony down the road.
Dame Yankee
Nope nope nope. She has had nothing but time to adjust. She has been refusing to meet me for 2.5 years and we chose a long engagement In order to give these kids even more time to get used to the idea. Plus, they see each other a ton and he and I are separated by 1000 miles. I was leaving the next day and it was unreasonable for her to expect that he would leave his visiting fianc�. It was a test, nothing but a test. So far everything has been on her timetable, he hasn’t asked her for anything. She has made his ‘uncoupledom’ a requirement for a relationship with her.
They see each other, she is a priority, he has respected her feelings ad nauseum. No, she can’t come to the wedding, because she is too combatiive and unreliable and I don’t trust her not to cause a scene.
More than anything I was broken hearted because I want to have a relationship with all of his kids. Their mother is unstable and I thought I could be a safe place for them, bc they need one. I have grieved this interaction bc now I know that I won’t have a relationship with her. She has put all of her anger re: their split on me.
He and I made many rules almost 3 years ago when we started this. The first was the kids come first. We didn’t rush anything. Neither of us up and moved nor did we rush into marriage. We’ve made sure the kids had time. What I see is that is doesn’t matter how much time is given, she will not budge on me.
That may be true — she’ll never budge. But she probably will in time. I know 2.5 years seems like a lot of time, but given the age, it just isn’t. She will gain a lot of maturity in the next few years.
I read your posts a lot, because you are intelligent and make good sense, and I believe everything you say about putting the kids first and sincerely wanting to be there for them. I’m not questioning your intentions at all. And I know how hard this is. I’ve been on both sides of this kind of family drama, just not with a kid yet. With a kid it has to be harder.
But I think. . . she’s not the enemy here. She needs to know that you guys don’t give up on her. That’s why I say — if she’s not invited to your wedding (and for heaven’s sakes, she really shouldn’t go) it needs to be made very clear to her that it’s not the result of Al’s choosing you over her. It’s about you and Al deserving a wedding that is free of conflict.
I’d further add — with so many kids involved, and some of them teens, you guys have done a really great job. I have more than one friend whose teenagers would not speak to one of their parents at all following a divorce, and it’s been really heartbreaking for them.
Well, I will say that I do agree she should know we aren’t going to give up on here, good point. . As for the wedding, Im ready to go to the JOP. I think there is no way she won’t escalate and move backwards knowing that it is happening that weekend and she isn’t involved, but at the same time I can’t have her here upsetting my kids, all of this extended family on both sides, etc.
Also, she is very smart (just graduated from an Ivy League university) but has a tendency to bully and boss. She also isn’t speaking to Al’s mother for a comment made 4 years ago. So I guess my question is, at what point are there consequences to her behavior? She has treated me so terribly that really I feel I must self protect. She was so combative and explosive that I feel vulnerable. I will never trust her behavior bc that attack was unprovoked. I really have only seen behavior like that in hospital situations (work in mental health) and I would have called security to escort her out. Al even says he has felt vulnerable and exposed in his apartment since I left because of the attack. Really it was off the hook.
I’m trying to scale back the wedding so she won’t feel left out. I will try to remain open but it’s hard. So far it has all been on her terms.
Yikes. I read this a while ago, but it took me a while to respond.
It seems to me that, like all tantruming toddlers, she needs to have some pretty serious boundaries set up, and some consequences to go with them, and that without a combination of boundaries and consequences, she’s going to keep running out of control.
She’s out of her mind. You are not the reason for her parents’ divorce, and her anger is misplaced. She is old enough to know that. She’s got something going on, but it’s not you. You are not “the other woman” and she surely does not expect her father to live like a monk for the rest of his life, staying up and waiting for her to introduce her boyfriends to him? It’s too silly to consider.
The irony of her insisting that her father meet her boyfriend, when she refuses to interact with her father’s fiance, is quite stunning, too.
When a toddler yells “I’m not tired and I’m not going to bed and you’re mean and you can’t make me!” we don’t renegotiate to give them an extra half hour awake, we say “Honey, you’re out of control and it’s time for you to get some sleep so that you’ll wake up tomorrow feeling rested. Would you like to walk to your bedroom, or would you like me to carry you?” We add teddy bears and good night kisses, but we don’t let them throw things around the living room until they get to watch television. When my daughter did that, there were also times that I placed her in her room, walked out the door, and then stood on the other side of the door holding the handle closed as she screamed inside. Usually, within a couple of minutes (being two) she’d fall asleep, sometimes on the floor, and I’d quietly come back in and put her to bed. Then I’d go have a glass of wine, shaking from the horror of it.
She’s throwing a major fit, as you say, and she looks like a toddler fool, and it’s not helping her to continue behaving this way. What is acceptable in toddlers isn’t acceptable any more.
YOU can do nothing. Nothing at all – you’re not her mom, as she is sure to notice, and she wouldn’t listen to you even if you were Mother Theresa and the Dalai Lama rolled into one.
I think it’s up to Al to make this okay. It won’t be easy, because she’s really lost it, but I think it rests on Al to step up to his daughter right now and set boundaries: it’s like because he waited so long, she thinks she has the right to do whatever she pleases and call the shots. She is 22 years old, not 8, and she has a life of her own, and it is not reasonable to think that several years after her parents’ divorce one of her parents might remarry, and the fact that she is acting like a spurned lover is a bit much in the face of that. Given how patient Al has been, and how carefully the introductions of children have been made, it is all the more out of line for her to behave like that.
Of course she needs to hear that she is loved unconditionally by her father, but she also needs to hear that her behavior is crazy-out-of-line, and that attempts to manipulate him in such ways won’t work, so she should stop trying, as she’s only hurting herself and others and nobody will gain from such behaviors. She doesn’t have to love you, but she does have to behave with dignity towards the woman that her father has chosen as a mate. It’s not about you at all, it’s about Al and his daughter. How hurtful of her to treat her father in this way!
If a 22 year old can ruin your wedding, I would be very careful about how much havoc she could cause to the marriage. Will she say “It’s her or me!” for holidays? Will she refuse to step foot in your door when you live together? Will she declare that her siblings have to pick sides? And how will Al respond in the face of all of that?
I think that you and Al are fabulous. Every time I read one of your posts – and I’ve read every single one, since the beginning – I cheer for you, wish you well, and celebrate your love, and also your kindness and intelligence in rearing your kids and joining the family together. I think that this is the first big thing that I’ve ever worried about for you. She sounds spoiled, and I think it rests on Al’s shoulders to sit his beloved daughter down and say, “Honey, I’ve let this go on too long. You’re not behaving reasonably, and I will keep loving you, but I will not put up with this behavior.” Al might need to own some of his daughter’s behavior – he’s let her get this way (although at 22, I don’t know how much influence he has now). But she’s trying to parent him, show him that she’s boss, that she must have her way, and that his desires and yours don’t matter, and I’m not buying it. It’s not reasonable any more, if it ever was, and she needs to knock it off.
I’m sure you’ve thought of this, but family counseling seems in order. Or maybe bring in a hostage negotiator just to defuse the tension. 🙂 Maybe a third party could sort it all out.
I’m so sorry, Cuckoo Momma. I hope I’m not being too harsh with this, but I decided to be candid because sometimes candor helps. I wasn’t there, I don’t know it all, and I’ve certainly never had a 22 year old daughter or a stepfamily, so take it for what it’s worth. Please know that I’m cheering for all of you – even the girl I’ve deemed as spoiled, because clearly she’s hurting under all that anger – and that I genuinely hope that you can work it out.
And I hope you get the wedding that you want. And deserve. Your love deserves to be celebrated, and the other kids deserve to be part of that joy, too.