Eleventh-grade debate class. My assignment was to debate a woman’s right to equal pay in the workforce. I wore a Rosie the Riveter shirt. My nickname at the time was the “man-hater. My life plan at age 17 was to barge head first into the real world. No man was going to stand in my way. Oh, cruel world, how this debate would bite me in the ass 18 years later.
Let’s get something straight, I am not in the 1%. Not even close. I shop at Target. I drive a used car. I occasionally splurge at Homegoods, because honestly, who can walk into that store and only spend $50? I have a great job and I make good money, but I started at the bottom and I have been in the same position almost 13 years. I am nowhere near owning a Yacht and being on the guest list for an Usher party. Yet I find myself facing the fact that I have to pay alimony to a man whose dating profile I found in the middle of the night. WHAT?! He cheated, not me!
In the beginning of the divorce process, we had a very worthwhile (NOT) four-way meeting between attorneys to discuss the division of assets. I recommend a stiff drink prior. Both my lawyer (and my mother) told me to stay cool. Don’t get upset. I lasted 5 minutes until the discussion of alimony. I was informed by my husband’s attorney that he was entitled to five years of support at $23,000 a year. Insert: expletives, screaming, tears. End four-way meeting.
My husband’s lawyer uses words like she is testifying on Capitol Hill. I find this irritating and insulting. As if her fancy words make my situation any better. She noted in our alimony discussion I was “shirking” my financial obligations to my husband. Oh, right. After taking care of all our finances for over a decade, constantly nagging him about buying coffees every day, and did he really need a tanning AND massage membership (true story). But sure, I am the one who was SHIRKING. She doesn’t use the word alimony- t’s pendite lite – aka temporary spousal support. Same shit. Pendite lite, alimony, writing a check to scum, call it whatever you like. It is infuriating and I was fighting it.
I feel anyone going through a divorce should suddenly become very well-read in all aspects of their state divorce laws regarding how-badly-you-are-about-to-get-screwed. I poured over articles and legislation on alimony. Did you know less than 3% of men are awarded alimony every year? Less than 400,000 men in the United States receive alimony. Oh hooray! I always wanted to be a statistic! No one can believe it when I tell them. Wait, you have to pay HIM?! I had a very lengthy discussion with a representative from my car insurance regarding this. People, even men I work with, don’t understand it. And guess what? Frankly, neither do I.
I suppose as I reach far into the depths of my silver lining basket (it isn’t very big), there is one saving grace. In 2014, New Jersey ended permanent alimony. Hallelujah. Can you imagine my son pushing me in my wheelchair to deliver my alimony payment to my ex-husband at his nursing home?! I would stuff that check into his jello cup, you can be sure of that.
Let’s review the new and fun categories of alimony.
1. Rehabilitative Alimony: Awarded to assist spouses who have good employment prospects of returning to the workforce. Hence, to “rehabilitate.” My spouse is employed and makes decent money. He does not qualify for this, as he is already employed. Next!
2. Reimbursement Alimony: Awarded to pay back support of an advanced education where the dependent spouse was in a professional school program during most of the marriage. Not applicable since my ex did no such thing unless you consider perfecting his selfies for all his Facebook profile photos “pursuing advanced education.” Next!
3. Open Durational Alimony: Awarded based upon the needs of the recipient, as in there are valid needs why the spouse cannot earn enough money to support themselves for a period of time. An example would be a spouse who was a stay-at-home parent and needs time to gain marketable skills to enter the workforce. Again, not applicable since my ex has a decent job with his own benefits available. Next!
4. Limited Duration Alimony: Alimony awarded for short-term marriages where a spouse has good employment prospects for the future. This is the category I fall in to. Yes, this is it. Someone, please explain to me how an individual who is EMPLOYED deserves five years of support under this clause?!
My lawyer explained it like this, the court will see I make more than my ex-husband. They consider that a “substantial” difference in pay. Sure, if I made $2 million a year and he made $30,000, fine. He might have a leg to stand on. But I don’t. And they don’t care. And after debating for equal pay and women’s rights when I was young and apparently naive, I now find my hard work down the toilet. And for what? This has to be, hands-down, the worst part of this divorce process thus far. I cannot even stomach paying this man money every month. Because at the end of the day, I don’t feel he qualifies, let alone deserves it. Oh hello, Internet women my husband was sexting, please enjoy drinks and dinner on me since I am paying for it.
At the end of the day, we all want closure. I find the fact of paying alimony the opposite of closure, especially because he cheated. It will be a monthly reminder of how my hard work is now being paid to someone who could simply budget better and work overtime to make extra money. Why not take that higher road? I am bitter. I wanted him, for once, to do the right thing. He ended our marriage doing everything wrong. And I am left falling fast – plummeting to the ground, wondering when I am going to hit the bottom. I never got a real apology for what he did to me – to our family – and I cannot wrap my head around this man pushing for alimony, feeling he is entitled to it. It is a hard pill to swallow. I was the good person and I was hoping he could be the good person at the end of the day, too.
A friend sent me this quote this week that I find appropriate and will share.
“Closure is a joke. The only apology you need is the one you owe yourself for staying as long as you did. The only conversation you need to have and the only person you need to see again is the person in the mirror. Look at yourself and say, you know what, I fucked up. My worth is more than that. That’s your closure. You can’t keep dancing with the devil and wonder why you’re still in hell.”
You bet. Stay strong, ladies. You wear that Rosie the Riveter shirt and fight for what you feel is right. At least alimony is a tax write-off.
It is the double edged sword of “no fault divorce” that in theory helps women but at the same time has hurt them. I don’t think any spouse who commits adultry, man or woman, regardless of circumstances should be awarded alimony.
Actually the only time I see alimony as just (for a man or a woman) is if that person took a number of years off from working to raise the children and somehow lessened their earning abilities by doing so.
My ex cheated and I took 10 years off from work to be a stay at home mom. Still when the time came for our divorce and even though I was within my rights to ask for alimony, since our salaries were close (discrepant in his favor but still close) i turned down alimony. I didn’t want anything to do with him and I didn’t feel like it was right since my salary was in spitting distance of his.
Of course that’s the difference between people who cheat and people who don’t. People who cheat are ruled by their overwhelming sense of entitlement and people who don’t aren’t. I am sorry this happened to you. Time to write your state senate or congress or whoever will listen. Try to change the laws even if it’s too late to help you.
Definitely agree with you, Iris! Regardless of the cheating, I still do not understand how he qualifies. And to add salt to the wound, the fact he is requesting it … well, you can imagine how I feel. Co-workers also told me I should write a letter to my Congressman. Alimony is such an antiquated law anyways. I suppose I could have tried to fight it in court. But how much would that cost me? Probably more than just paying it, sadly. Thanks for your comment!
Do you find it as appalling if it is a woman requesting alimony? And, yes, you should have fought it in court because, if he is employed and earns enough to live on, no judge would have awarded him alimony. So, in the end, you caved when you should have fought which is what you did the entire marriage when you gave in to him being financially irresponsible.
Hi Amanda!
It doesn’t matter if a man or woman requests alimony … if there is a NEED. Sure, someone gave up their career to be a stay-at-home parent. Or someone who needs time to brush up on skills to enter the workforce – definitely in support of that. I am not in agreement with New Jersey’s laws that simply because I make more, that I need to pay my ex. He could have waived it – he chose not to. I could have fought it – I chose not to. I trust my lawyer when he says it would be an expensive fight AND what if I lost? The judge could also order me to pay my ex’s attorney fees. In addition to mine, that would probably be close to $40,000. Not worth it. In the end, I live by a very detailed Excel-spreadsheet budget and I am in total control of my money. I also have no cable and eat a lot of omelettes. 🙂 And you are right, he was financially irresponsible and will likely continue down that path. Except I won’t have to pick up the pieces. 🙂 Thanks for your comment!
I essentially did the same thing. I looked at the costs and risks and cut my ex wife a check. Exactly as her lawyer hoped.
The fact that I could have gotten stuck with her legal bills played a big part in the math. If she can fight with no skin in the game, what is her incentive to settle?
I also did not want to get stuck with my ex’s legal fees. No thanks. It wasn’t worth the risk.
It’s not supposed to matter if it’s a man or woman asking for alimony. In my divorce, I was pretty sure that the judge was old school and going to give it to my STBX wife, so I bribed her. Looked at what the legal fees would have been to win and made a deal.
If you wrote your state legislator, what would you ask for. My state just killed an attempt at custody and alimony reform. The main combatants on each side of the argument were women.
I caught my ex wife cheating. I gathered the evidence, went to see a lawyer, and found out that nobody cared. They explained no fault divorce meant. Fast forward to the disolution phase, and my lovely wife who now lives in a one bedroom apartment with equally married boyfriend, is refusing to share custody and wants alimony. She manages to (briefly) get temp custody which turns this farce into a real threat.
I get the entitlement that make her think the kids are hers, but the alimony baffled me. She does what she does when we met, make what people who do that sort of thing make, and if anyones a “primary care giver” or has traded career advancement for time with kids, its me. Why is it that we will divide everyting equally and I still owe her? Just because I make more than she does? I made triple what she did when we met. She didn’t help my career in any way.
So off to mediation we go. And basically I have to bribe her. We do an estimate of what it would cost to fight for primary custody and no alimony and offer her a percentage. I couldn’t risk putting it in the hands of a judge who awarded her temp custody based on the fact that she was a mom. In the final agreement, no alimony, we pretend to share parenting time equally (the kids are actually with me about 60% of the time) so that she can collect child support and not be labeled as a mom who “lost custody”.
My state had some child custody and alimoy reform legislation that got killed last year. The most interesting thing is who was fighting. It’s mostly women. On the one side NOW lobied against it, and on the other, the primary sponsors we all successfull divorced women who resented how they faired in there divorces.
Hi Joshua!
Sorry to hear about your alimony and custody battle! I also had a similar argument from my ex-spouse – his sacrifice allowed me to advance my career. False. I worked my way up like everyone else does. I started at the bottom and through hard work, advanced. And it had ZERO to do with him. I even took more of the debt and he still wants me to pay him. And really glad he took time to mention the fun Def Leopard concert he went to the other day with his friend. Oh how nice. Glad my payments are funding your fun excursions! Unbelievable!
The advice I got from my attorney and mediator, to pay (I like to say bribe) my STBX wife to get her to waive alimony really bothered me at the time. It was just so wrong. But I’m so glad I did as it truly ended our marriage. I am so glad I won’t be tied to her for rest of my life.
The down side to this ugly skirmish is I have a whole new outlook on perspective partners. I never cared what they did or what they made as long as it made them happy. Now, eyes open, I doubt I’ll ever remarry, but if I do, it will be with an economic equal and a prenup, and really, how can you start a new partnership like that?
I literally was just discussing this very thing with a co-worker! Oh hi potential new husband, do you mind if we discuss a prenup?! I always associated prenup with celebrities, but more and more I am hearing how average-earners are utilizing them. I now see why. Also, you have the exact mindset I used to – I didn’t care what my ex made. It never mattered to me. Well look how well that worked out for me. He never pushed himself like I did and it didn’t really bother me, as long as he was happy in his job. Now, just like you, Josh, I feel a little burned and would look to someone who is a little more on the same page as me. Or at least would be comfortable discussing finances and a possible prenup. Great comment! 🙂
I don’t understand your complaint. The courts absolutely do not care who was at fault, if anyone. That’s what No Fault Divorce means.
You made more money, your state laws awarded your ex support accordingly. It doesn’t matter whether your ex is male or female; it doesn’t matter whether you are male or female.
No Fault has long been the standard. Would you really want different laws for men and women? Are you simply upset that fault is no longer considered? Or are you upset that you lose an advantage with gender neutral laws?
Great comment and true, at the end of the day, does it matter in terms of alimony if he cheated or not? I think for me, it mostly just adds salt to the wound. After causing so much pain, why try to cripple someone financially? Hasn’t there been enough damage?! Hard pill to swallow. I definitely would not want it different for a man or woman. I have a hard time understanding that if a spouse can more than support themselves and they make a good living, why am I paying anything? Why not just split the debts and be done? I don’t understand how he qualifies under these laws. Sure, if I made $2 million a year and he made $30,000 … then fine. Huge discrepancy in income. There is not that big a difference in our income. I don’t understand. Frustrating, to say the least. Thanks for your comment! 🙂
You do not need to understand. Just stop being greedy and self entitled and pay obedience to the judge’s rule.
I think as these situations are more common then women will not be the ones to file for divorce more often than men. Court judgements are in my estimation why women predominantly file for divorce but breakups of unmarried relatio ship are statistically neutral.
But there is a loss of honor and justify a need for prenup.
Dan, you think that people who are just dating break up mainly because they both agree it’s time to break up? You haven’t done much dating, have you? And, you seriously think that women are more likely to stay in a bad marriage just because they fear they may have to pay alimony? You don’t know women very well. Court judgements aren’t biased in favor of women. I’m a family law attorney, been practicing for 15-years in New Jersey. I have both male and female clients. In my years working in family law, I can’t remember a case where a judge was not fair and impartial, regardless of a person’s gender. Women who are being beaten, constantly cheated on or, have already been left holding the bag by a husband who no longer cares are going to file for a divorce no matter how much it costs them. That has been my experience with my female clients, anyway. Men rarely file for a divorce. You know why, because marriage benefits men more than it does women. Men have more regard for their money than they do their wives and will stay in a horrible marriage just to keep from paying out for a divorce. Women understand the value of peace of mind and personal happiness and the majority will walk away and leave everything if it means getting away from a man who treats her badly.
I think your generalizations are unsupported.
Speaking only of those marriages in which abuse is not an issue, which is most of them, there appears to be a distinct difference in how men and women perceive the health of the marriage.
Men are more likely to think everything is within reason, and that life and marriage are simply difficult. They are unlikely to think they are in a horrible situation. They typically just don’t see the situation as being that bad, and are blindsided when their supposedly living wives file and start litigating. It has basically nothing to do with being willing or unwilling to pay.
I have no idea why you would assert that marriage benefits men more than it does women. Statistically, men’s standards of living fall less than women’s do after divorce, and recover more quickly, even after support is accounted for.
Men and women often have different concepts of what it means to treat someone badly, outside of abusive situations. Men value peace of mind and personal happiness just as much as women do; women are just more likely to believe these things are missing from their married life.
I for one am very interested in comparing how same sex marriages break down compared to opposite sex marriages, once the sample sizes are large enough. It should reveal some interesting things about respective gender psychologies and perceptions.
I’m a female paying 4-figure alimony to the husband with a master’s who suddenly refused to take work in year 15 of marriage. He works now, enjoys the house I made every singe payment on right up until his HUGE alimony started.
Thanks judge, it’s so heartwarming to see him get everything (house, car, alimony, even child support in a 50/50). It’s great to see laws in place requiring the hard working to subsidize deadbeats.
And soon alimony will no longer be tax deductible for the payer.
My husband pays 80K per year in alimony. His ex has a full time job and a masters degree – in good health and a great career, vacations in Hawaii every year, bought a brand new 40K car. It is a strange system we have. He has been paying for 5 years and at year 10 ….when her home is paid off…he is done. It will be the battle of his life. I have a sizeable income so we will need to divorce strategically and put everything in my name to make sure he goes in for a modification single and broke. After 10 years he will have given her 1 million dollars. If she did not plan according or save – that is her problem. The reason we will need to divorce is that legally the judge can look at my assets and income unfortunately. Oh and I should add in that…..she cheated on him TWICE.
A spouse’s income is not taken into consideration when deciding alimony. That is outrageous! Also, If he is done when her home is paid off, why do you have to divorce? It makes no sense. If it’s in his divorce decree that he pays alimony for 10 years, he doesn’t have to request a modification. The alimony will stop after that 10 year period. Unless, of course, he failed to protect himself legally. Also, divorcing so he will look broke and single won’t work. Alimony is not only based on present income but past income also. So, if you’re going to attempt to lie to the courts about his income by divorcing and putting everything in your name, you better get to that so it will appear that he has been broke and single for a long time.
Yes her income was considered and he still got stuck with 80K. I should have specified – his judged ordered indefinite alimony. So there is no end in sight unless there is a significant change in circumstances. Year 10 is when he decided he will file for a modification. That way she at least has a home that is paid off and just needs to support her other bills, additional spending, etc. We hired a certified divorce financial planner that has been incredibly helpful. He was able to provide so much information on how to best prepare for such a tough battle. We plan on moving out of state, having LLCs that are anonymous, using real estate, etc. The reason for the divorce is to protect everything in my name – I know a few people that have done this successfully. We file separate taxes anyway and his income will be changing in the future when his contract changes so we are preparing well in advance.. We do understand that the courts go back a few years. At the end of the day, a court cannot make money appear that is not there. He is prepared to fight and fight and drag it out as long as he can until he is free. The laws are unconstitutional and really need to be modified.
Of course, her income was considered. And, his must have been considerably more than hers for him to be ordered to pay $80,000 a year in alimony. Your income was not considered and won’t be considered when he petitions the court for a modification. It sounds like you’ve hired a certified financial divorce planner who is encouraging you to break the law. Hiding money being LLCs in your name only or anonymous and using real estate is against the law. It’s called, “hiding assets” for a reason. Better hope she doesn’t hire a forensic accountant to dig into his income sources. If she does that, he will never be free. His best bet is to play it ethically. Negotiate a lower alimony payment and count his lucky stars. Also, the laws aren’t unconstitutional, they are fair and equitable.
We can agree to disagree. These are LEGAL loop holes that we intend to utilize happily. No person – man or woman – should be responsible for a grown, able bodied adult forever. Even child support ends at 18 years old…children aren’t parent’s responsibility at 18 either. She should consider herself lucky that he is willing to pay that for 10 years. It could have been much worse for her. Anyway – she made her bed and can lay in it.
And sorry to hear about your husband and his tinder account. Tough break for you but not surprising given your feminist, old school way of thinking.
LOL!! I don’t have a husband. Tinder wasn’t even a thing the last time I had a husband. That’s hilarious! And, my views aren’t feminist. Feminists don’t believe in alimony for any reason. I didn’t say anywhere that she deserves the alimony. I tried to explain to you that you two are going about getting out of paying alimony in the wrong way. “Loopholes” aren’t legal! But, you go ahead and use those loopholes and hope he doesn’t end up paying more than he is paying now when he is caught hiding assets.
Ok so you aren’t the author then…but you are divorced and bitter. I get it now. AGAIN….if there are no assets then there is nothing to hide. Pretty simple. Loopholes are totally legal as long as you don’t cross into the illegal realm. A single man with nothing to hide has NOTHING. It is pretty simple.
Ok. You women who are bitter and angry for having to pay your ex, if the genders were turned around how much would you really care? My guess, not a lot. We women wanted equality, now that we got it so why are we angry?